Waterjets.org Discussion Rules / Guidelines

If you are unable to send e-mails to the group, make sure that your e-mails don’t contain any “attachments” such as pictures or signature files. To protect members of the group from viruses and spam, e-mails with attachments are automatically discarded.

Be sure to invite your friends, co-workers, and others to join this e-group. The more people that join, the more we will all benefit.

This page contains:

Cautions and Warnings

  • Beware of “wolves in sheep’s clothing.”
    On the Internet, it is easy for anyone to disguise their identity, and pretend to be somebody they are not. Some unscrupulous people will take advantage of this, especially when you consider the amount of money involved in the equipment being discussed, and the temptation that presents. Be very wary of any person who does not say who they are, or where they work. It often occurs that people will get on chat rooms or discussion groups and pretend to be unbiased helpers or ask seeming innocent questions, when in fact they are feeding you a bunch of crap.

Some red flags to watch for:

  • E-mails from “free” internet accounts such as Yahoo and Hotmail. These accounts are easy to get without having to provide any identifying information. Therefore, it is easy to be anonymous. (This does not mean that someone using such an account is a “wolf.” In fact it is probably not the case, but it is a red flag.)
  • People with strong opinions for or against a particular brand or product without factual information to back it up.
  • People with strong opinions for or against a particular brand or product that don’t say who they are.
  • People who say that their company uses the equipment that they are talking about, but don’t say what company they are from, or who they are.
  • People who quote sources that don’t exist, or “a friend said.”
  • People who habitually violate the rules outlined below.

Messages tend to be more trustworthy if the poster:

  • States their name.
  • States the company they work for.
  • Provides other contact information, such as a mailing address, phone number, or a link to their web site.
  • Provides factual information.
  • Quotes real, verifiable sources.

Rules and Guidelines


Rule #1
You cannot be an anonymous member of this group, and you must say who you are and who you work for. This is to protect the other members of this group from “wolves in sheep’s clothing.” When posting an e-mail to the group you must:

  • Include your real name (first and last)
  • Include the name of the company (or school or other affiliation) that you work for. If you are not affiliated with any company or organization then state “No affiliation with any company.” This lets the reader have some way to judge if you are a real person.
  • If you prefer not to say who you are, then you may not post, and your postings will be rejected without going to other group members.

Rule #2
Don’t be afraid to ask a stupid question. Chances are that someone else too embarrassed to ask your question, and is grateful that you saved them the embarrassment. The purpose of this group is to make experts out of novices.

Rule #3
Stay in the spirit of the web site, which is to promote and exchange ideas and information regarding abrasivejet and waterjet technology, with an emphasis on abrasive waterjet cutting and machining. This means that it is not here to bash what other people are doing, talk about things that have little or nothing to do with abrasive waterjet cutting and machining, or to promote your personal interests in the disguise of helping others.

Rule #4
Slander will not be tolerated. If you have something bad to say about someone else’s product or service, then back it up with facts, and say who you are (name and company). If you don’t, then group members will make it a point to challenge whatever you say, and ask who you are and how it is that you know so much. This discussion group is not for bashing other people’s hard work. However, open debate on the merits of different equipment is encouraged—just stay on topic, try to be professional, and absolutely do not lie or otherwise purposely be deceptive.
Rule #5
The group is not for idle chit-chat. If you want to blab about things that have nothing to do with waterjets, then find another group. There are thousands of groups dedicated to many different subjects. There are hundreds of people (over 2600) who are members of this group, and when you blab, you waste a lot of people’s time. Before posting anything to the group, ask yourself, “Would this information or question I am about to post be something that belongs in the Waterjet Web Reference?” If the answer is “no,” then don’t post it.

Rule #6
The group is not for the discussion of SUPER-WATER®. If you want to talk about SUPER-WATER, then join the SUPER-WATER group. You can join the SUPER-WATER group by going here: http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/super-water/join.

Rule #7
Keep in mind that there are a lot of people using this discussion group. Anything you say is akin to standing up in a room full of people, and speaking. What you write will go into the e-mail box of each person in the group. Compose your message with care and respect.

Rule #8
When posting a brand new message or question, choose a subject that makes sense. Don’t use the subject of “waterjet,” because all topics in this discussion group are already about waterjets. Likewise, don’t use “(no subject)” as your subject either. Instead, choose a subject such as “How thick can a waterjet cut?”. This makes the discussion easier to follow, and allows people to browse old messages for information that they are looking for, by simply looking at the subject.

Note: If you are replying to a “daily digest” be sure to re-enter the original subject of the email you are replying to (So your subject is not “Re: Digest #1234”)

Rule #9
When sending a personal e-mail to someone on the group, send it to that person’s e-mail address directly. Do not post it to the waterjets e-group unless you believe that it is of benefit to other members of the group.

Rule #10
When replying to a message that has already been posted, open the message you are replying to, then click on “Reply.” Don’t start a brand new subject, as it makes discussions hard to follow. Of course, if your reply has nothing to do with the original subject, then start a new subject.

Rule #11
Use your real name (name and company), and don’t pretend to be somebody you are not to promote your company’s equipment, “bash” your competitors, spread lies, rumors, or misinformation, engage in illegal activity, and so forth. Be upfront about who you are. For added credibility, provide contact information such as your company web site, address, or phone number.

Rule #12
Advertising – The purpose of this group is not for advertising. However, feel free to occasionally use the discussion group for “want ads,” or to sell used equipment, services, look for employees or employment, and so forth. But do not overdo it by replying to or instigating a large number of messages to blanket the group with your promotional information. If you are interested in advertising your waterjet related business, visit the waterjet business listings web site.

Rule #13
Remember: What you put on the discussion group will be there for many years (the very first message on Jan 5, 2001 is still available on the web site). Be careful of offending anyone , or stating anything that is untrue. Unlike a normal conversation, what you say sticks!

Rule # 14
The use of member’s private e-mail addresses for the purpose of sending unwanted e-mails to one or more group members will get you kicked off of the group, should you get more than one complaint from a member of the group. Group members who wish to file such a complaint should:

  • Send an e-mail to the offender stating that they do not wish to receive any further mails from them. The e-mail should say “See Waterjets Discussion Group Rule #14 at http://www.waterjets.org/wjwr_discussion_guidelines.html,” and be sure to send a copy of this email to carlolsen@waterjets.org to be registered as an official complaint.
  • Forward the offending e-mail(s) to carlolsen@waterjets.org
  • If they send a second e-mail to you (other than an apology), forward this on to carlolsen@waterjets.org for verification that they have done so again. They will then be “banished” from the group for a period of three months, after which they can request to be let back in.

This rule is intended to give the legitimate person a chance to make contact with someone without fear of getting banned, but will also make it harder for someone to abuse the group by sending unwanted e-mails, offensive message, or spam. It also takes away any gray areas about the definition of insult, and simply says that if someone request that you don’t send any e-mails to them, and you do, then you are off this group.

Rule #15
The language of this discussion group is ENGLISH. If you speak other languages, please translate your question into English before posting to the group. You may wish to use one of the free Internet tools such as http://www.freetranslation.com or http://babelfish.yahoo.com/ Then include the English translation along with your original untranslated message.

Rule #16
Note that not everyone in the group speaks English as their first language. Therefore, try to avoid using obscure words, and a lot of technical jargon and such. Check your spelling also, because this makes it easier for language translation software to give good results.

Rule #17
Don’t use this group to deceptively promote your company by having staged conversations. (For example, don’t post a question, or have someone else post a question like “what do you think of XYZ company”, then call up your one happy customer and talk them into posting an answer that says, “that company is the best…”)

Rule #18
Don’t violate the guidelines provided by your Yahoo terms of service (external link).

Final Rule
If you see anyone violate the above rules, please don’t post a “you just violated Rule #XX” to the newsgroup. We are already all annoyed at whoever violated a rule, and we don’t need more useless messages clogging up our mail boxes. Send a message to Carl Olsen, and he will politely let the person know that you were offended, without having to send spam to the rest of the group.


Be very careful of what you post to this group! Once you press “Send,” it cannot be taken back! It will go into every single group member’s email box, as well as to a web archive. Your message can be deleted from the archive, but there is no way it can be deleted from everyone’s mail box.

Unsubscribing from the group

About once per week someone tells me that they are unable to unsubscribe from the waterjets group.

In theory, sending an e-mail to waterjets-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com, is all that is needed. However, I receive reports that this feature is not working as reliably as it should. Why it is not, is a complete mystery to me, and also completely out of my control, but here are some tips:

If you wish to unsubscribe from this group, try the following in this order:

1. Send an e-mail to waterjets-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com from the exact e-mail account that you used to sign up to the group with. If you use a different e-mail account, then it will not work. Also check the spelling of the above mentioned e-mail to make sure it is exact, and you include the “s” in “waterjets,” or it will not work.

After you send this e-mail, you will get an e-mail from Yahoo Groups asking you to confirm your unsubscribing by replying to the e-mail. If you do not reply to the e-mail, you are not unsubscribed. (If you have an aggressive spam filtering system, be sure to check your spam folder for this message after you send the unsubscribe e-mail.)

You will then get another e-mail confirming your request to unsubscribe. You are now unsubscribed, and if you want to resume receiving group messages, you will need to join the group again.

2. If the above still does not work, then send an e-mail to listings@waterjets.org to be removed manually.

As an alternate to unsubscribing, you can also edit your account to simply receive “daily digests” or “read online”. This cuts down on the amount of email you will receive, but still lets you stay in the group.

More information on this and other tips can be found at this Yahoo group help page (external link):


As mentioned previously, all new users posts will be “moderated.” Users who violate any of the above rules will probably also be moderated, if it causes a problem. Additional moderation may be applied to the group on occasion, when “flame wars” erupt. To date, almost all moderation has been the deletion of viruses and spam, or topics related to “SUPER-WATER” (There is a completely separate Yahoo Group for SUPER-WATER discussion, because a lot of people in the [waterjets] group decided that there was too much SUPER-WATER talk filling their in-boxes.)

If you need help, or want to suggest another rule or guideline, just send me an email .

Although I don’t like to, I reserve the right remove anything I deem inappropriate. Hopefully, this will never have to be done. Also, I will delete any message that violates the discussion group guidelines that I have agreed to in order to use this free service. Likewise, anyone who consistently or purposely violates these guidelines will be banned from the group.

Statement of Biases

Although I (Carl Olsen) am the moderator of the “Waterjets” discussion group, I also am a computer programmer for OMAX, which a major manufacturer of waterjet related equipment (XY Tables, pumps, nozzles, controllers, software). It is not my intention to use the waterjets group as a means of either promoting OMAX equipment, or anti-promoting the products of OMAX’s competitors. I am not a sales person, nor do I want to be one.

For this reason, I will personally try to avoid discussing things that could be deemed promoting the interests of the company that I work for, even if that sometimes means not replying to some messages to which I think I have useful information to add. The Waterjet Web Reference, and the “Waterjets” discussion group are not part of OMAX or any other company that I might otherwise have relations with.

I will, however, try my best to provide the fairest possible moderation of the discussion group, and to promote the use of waterjet and abrasivejet technology in a general manner. It is a technology that I believe in, and I believe that my personal interests in OMAX can best be served by open and honest communication on the subject. I am also not without my opinions.

If you want to know what I think about waterjets, then visit the Waterjet Web Reference . If you want to know what others think, then join the discussion group.

Thank you,


Carl Olsen
Moderator of [Waterjets] discussion group, and Web Master of the Waterjet Web Reference.


Use the information posted in this newsgroup at your own risk. I assume no responsibility whatsoever for the accuracy of any information posted to it, or any problems or conflicts that may arise from its use or information it contains. Sorry. Moderating this group, and answering questions posted on the group is a hobby. I can’t guarantee that the group won’t be abused or corrupted with misinformation.